Posted by: edain | October 13, 2007

Why do I dont understand the prophets

It is very hard for me to understand a lot of the way the Church is leaded today… I know I know… that can lead to personal apostasy.

But there are too much unanswered questions, to many statements that make me doubt about the way the Church is going to, reason to make me thing Joseph Smith’s teachings aren’t follow. Its true the Church is based in “modern revelation”, and OF COURSE the Church should change to fill the needs of its members in this advancing world, but there are thing that are unchangeable… teachings that came ‘since Adam”.

So here are some of the problems I struggle with and the non-answer from the Church:

1. If it was not doctrine, why the Church deny the Priesthood to the black race descendants? Why Brigham Young and even current leaders of the Church taught about the Cain’s sin or the impartial ones in heaven?

2. Gays, now the Church accept them as they are but not what they do, totally opposed to gay marriage. What is the position of the Church about the nature of a gay person: someone is gay because they born like that (God made them), it’s just a decease or what?

3. When in 1843 Joseph revealed the Law of Celestial Marriage (polygamy) it was a principle needed for the Exaltation, Young enforced that and even when the world was against that practice they still suffer for obey God. Then in 1890 the Church put in stand-by it practice, nowadays the Church deny the principle while schisms groups at least try to follow it. Now the Church forbids the plural marriage but is inconsistent because people can still be sealed to someone else when that person’s partner is dead.

4. The topping speech of Joseph Smith was in the Funeral of King Follet, where the eternal Progression doctrine was revealed, when the Mystery of the Godhead was revealed: God was a man and the man can be a god someday, teaching that probes the legitimacy of Smith as a true prophet, but nowadays is a doctrine incomprehensible and the Church try to put away.

Interview to Gordon B. Hinckley – San Francisco Chronicle

5. Modern evidence and Science is one of the worst foes of the faith, theories as the Evolution fight against the religion account of the Creation. To the prophets of old was revealed all the things since the beginning, the pharisees in Jesus’ time hold the key of knowledge and science, hiding from the world among others the ‘true account of the creation” of Adam and Eve and this Earth. A knowledge that even in the Church seems to be lost.

Statement of the First Presidency – Dec 1910

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young’s teachings about many things as:

  • Adam-God (and the accepted theory of Adam born as an embryo)
  • Second Anointing (Feet washing/Made Sure Election/exaltation on earth)
  • Quorum of the Fifty/Seven (Or how Jesus will reign on Earth in Smith’s times)
  • Translation of the Book of Mormon (and why they don’t use the seer stone today)
  • The Book of Abraham and the true meaning of the papyri founded
  • How revelation is received today
  • The reason of the schism in the Fighting for the Church new leader after the death of Joseph
  • Why Emma never come back to the “only and true Church” and get married again
  • etc etc etc… and why all this truths are not teaching for the Church and contrary the Church try to hide and forget.

Responses

  1. Uh, I’ll give it a shot and try to answer these points:

    1. The church leadership denied the priesthood to blacks as a mistake, based on cultural issues and mistaken beliefs, which was perpetuated with each succeeding leader, then when someone actually asked the Lord for light concerning the issue, He explained that it was a mistake and they reversed the policy, without revealing the actual revelation the policy was based upon (since there was none) nor the actual revelation the policy reversal was based on (since it would have shown that the policy was erroneous.) Instead, we ended up with just an official declaration that a revelation was received, instead of the actual revelation. In other words, they saved face.

    2. God hasn’t revealed anything about gays, other than the practice is evil, so that is the church’s (correct) stance. Gay marriage, though, must be opposed politically, otherwise it’s legal passage will open up the legality of polygamy and the church will be forced to live that law fully again, if it ever becomes legal.

    3. Plural marriage still is in force, though not when all spouses are alive, so that we can stay legal and still organized as a 501c3 corporate sole church. Technically, the commandment to practice it is still in force. When it becomes legal, though, (through legalized gay marriage), living spouses will enter into it, just wait and see.

    4. The King Follett sermon isn’t a verbatim record. Second, it isn’t part of the scriptural canon. It is not binding upon the people and though it may be considered to contain truths by many people, it is still opinion, unless given in a revelation and canonized.

    5. Modern mainstream science is seriously flawed and doesn’t explain the many anomalies of nature. Electric universe and plasma science theory and laboratory results are consistent with what is actually seen in the universe, including explaining the anomalies, plus it works quite well with revealed religion. In other words, there is no conflict.

    6. Adam-God theory is a theory, not fact, not binding, but all are entitled to believe it if they want. Only scriptural canon is binding and doctrine.

    7. Second anointing. Who knows if this happens still? There are many other ordinances, surely that can and will be revealed from time to time. What we have now, though, is sufficient for salvation. We’ll get more later, though, undoubtedly.

    8. Theories on how the millenial reign will be are just that, theories. Unless in the scriptural canon, it ain’t binding.

    9. Ask and you shall receive. Don’t ask, and you won’t receive. Current lot of leaders don’t ask for more scripture, probably. Current lot of members don’t either.

    10. Too long to post an answer about Abraham papyri.

    11. Revelation received today? What revelation? (Other than personal revelation, that is.)

    12. Too long to post an answer about schism.

    13. Ask Emma.

    14. The church has a reputation of high moral standards to maintain. The leaders act accordingly.

    That answer (some of) your questions?

  2. Of course… but Im not expecting them…

  3. This is a very interesting and timely concept. I am intrigues by LDS Anarchist’s idea that, “other than personal revelation,” he asks, “what revelation?”

    Do you feel that the church is no longer led by inspired prophets and that it used to be in earlier days?

    This topic is exactly what I feel every Mormon should be able to think about, pray about, and gain knowledge about. One thing that I am seeing in the church is a really deep indifference to the things of God. Most members are very apathetic to matters of doctrine and history. Knowledge of the Gospel or of God’s leaders is removed from their lives.

    Instead, they seem to worry more about the way people dress. For example, the ongoing battle over the type and number of earrings women should wear. The prophet has said that one pair of conservative pierced earrings should be enough for a women. This comment has been used by Apostle David Bednar to be a litmus test of a woman’s character, and he told a story of a boy dumping a girl because she failed to heed the prophet and remove her extra earrings.

    This type of thing seems so silly that it is sad. It seems to me that it smacks of the Pharisees and the Zoramites.

    At this stage of the world, wouldn’t it seem reasonable to emphasize the weightier matters and have some meat with the milk?

  4. Brother of Jared, (may I call you that?), you asked: “Do you feel that the church is no longer led by inspired prophets and that it used to be in earlier days?”

    They hold the keys and I know it. That I will not deny. Whether they receive revelation or not has not been revealed to me. But the church has received no new revelation in a hundred years or so. (The official declaration on the priesthood was not a revelation, only a declaration of a revelation received.)

    As for inspiration, I believe they are inspired. They have the gift of the Holy Ghost, as do I and other members, and can receive inspiration just as anyone else can. But not all inspiration is inspired of God. Some of it is cultural “inspiration,” other is of man, other is of the devil. Some of it is political inspiration. This is, after all, a 501c3 corporate sole church.

    It is our job, as members of the church, to use the scriptures and our gift of the Holy Ghost to manifest the truth of all things, including all things that come from church leaders. It is not our job to accept everything from them hook, line and sinker without a second thought. You give an excellent example in brother Bednar’s bizarre litmus test. Earrings (or lack thereof) does not a saint make. We can use the Holy Ghost to see through such cultural “inspiration,” or we can just follow our leaders wherever they may lead us, even if it is off a cliff.

    Personally, if they are going to talk about bodily mutilations and how we should keep the body untouched and holy, they should have started at male genital mutilation, otherwise known as circumcision. Then they could have worked up to the less important topic of earrings. Your average guy on the street hearing such a statement about “two or more earrings being bad, but we won’t comment on only one pair” with no commenting about genital mutilation would say the appropriate, yet vulgar statement, “You’re full of s__t!” And they would be right, though we members of the church would never admit it publicly.


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